Gameplay, Civilizations, Style discussion & feedback
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Trolerkules
 
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Re: about static defense

by Trolerkules Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:49 pm

KoN_Ulla wrote:They are abit strong in those games but not too strong IMO they are imo :), if you attack them with infantry/hack damage or siege they go down pretty fast siege units are mostly late game stuff and obviously good against buildings so they are not really relevant here. for me, its early and mid game that is of interest. if i decide to be agressive with my first 2 cav units and i find an undefended house, i SHOULD be able to kill it. not in a matter of seconds of course, but still. , one of the problems with AoM is everyone gets four free towers so its easy to turtle and just survive with god powers :evil: . i agree. game design flaw par excellence. i talk about aom quite often with themista whos currently the worlds strongest aom player and he rages about that crap as well ^^In AoE II some of them maybe is too strong like lategame castle or stonewall, but then again they are very expencive, if you notice your enemy forward build you can take it down pretty fast with ten villagers and in lategame you have siege. Besides, normaly you win by destroying the enemies economy, not his buildings. its not about winning, its about building an advantage. being able to kill buildings is strategically important and an essential rts mechanic. be it denying tech buildings, delaying economy by sniping drop off points or by supply blocking your opponent to pull ahead in supply.

If they have too low HP it will just make it easy for the rusher to take down a house and supply block the enemy or take down enemies barracks in five seconds. i really dont like the term 'rushing'. rushing is not even a thing if you ask me. what most people call 'rushing' is essentially just a more agressive build order. and ive said it before, if i choose an aggressive stance, be it via build order or be it via opting to be more active on the map with a given amount of units and i find undefended 'things'. then i should be able to punish that. doesnt matter if its economy or structures. just imagine.. oh shit im out of position and he has 3 cav units in my base... thank god i dont even need to react because that house hes attacking has 20k hp.

The actuall wall however is too strong and fast to build in AoM and I think the stonewall is too strong in AoE II
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KoN_Ulla
 
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Re: about static defense

by KoN_Ulla Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:11 pm

Themista came after my time in AoM, but to be top 1 there does not say so much since its like 200 people playing that game ^^. I do know who he is from the AoEo beta were he played alot and he is a really good player, beat me like 20-0 or something :p. Remember he and orctastic or something dominated the short time I played.

I know you exaggerate with 20k HP house, but in AoM I belive the eggy castle had like 4k HP and is the strongest bulding, normal houses had like 1200 HP and went down easy (been 10 years since I played it so a big chance I am wrong). With two cav units you should not be able to kill buildings, atleast not fast, infantry and hack damage units are stronger vs buildings then cav. In AoM I played the norse civs (odin power :!: ), if I had 8 horses they take down a house in no time so its not a too big problem there, but if you are thinking AoE2 scouts vs buildings yes that take ages :p. It should be some units that can be good vs buildings and walls in early game too, but then they should be bad vs other units (like in AoM you have certan myth units/norse heroes/greek hoplites that is good vs buldings). Anyway I have no idea since ive not tried this game so I don't know if middlegame is between 5-15 minuts or from 20-40 minuts ^^, but beeing able to also take out buildings to get the adventage I think is a pluss.

And I belive it is a difference with rushing and beeing aggressive, when you rush you go all in with early aggression and try to win the game right there by sacrificing eco upgrades and stop villager producion for more military power to try killing your enemies economy and base, if the rush fails he has the upper hand and the game is most likely lost. Beeing agressive can be raiding or other forms of harassment to keep your enemy on the alert, but you don't need to go all in for an early attack.
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Trolerkules
 
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Re: about static defense

by Trolerkules Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:20 pm

i used cav in my example because in aoeo there was no difference between hack etc. there was just melee damage and ranged damage. and from the melee units cav had the highest dps, so yea thats why i used it ^^ my point being was just that even smaller groups should be able to take down SOME buildings. not all ofc. houses? yes. storehouses? yes. towncenters? certainly not :D and you seem to agree with me on that if i understand your post correctly.

oh boy, im always happy when i meet people from aoeo :) yes, mista was a highly skilled player. but i dont think you can say that being the best in aom doesnt mean much. from what ive seen, even though the playerbase isnt like sc2, competition and skill level is still very very high at the top.

ok then call it allin and not rush ^^ i really despise that term..
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KoN_Ulla
 
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Re: about static defense

by KoN_Ulla Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:35 pm

Yea it was not the point to bash him and saying it does not mean much,I see myself it looks that way (english not my main language and been a long time since ive been writing it), I typed the ^^ to show it was a joke.

And I am not so sure about the level since ive not played it in a long long time, but mostly everyone left it around 2005, I returned some times for a week or two during hollydays after that and people then said the skill level had increased, but even rusty me made top 20 a couple of times while before I could barly get into top100, it simply is not many players left in the game. However the experts that have stayed with it for 10 years and perfected it ofcourse are incredible skilled in that game, and mista proved in other games he is a good rts player.

And yes it looks like we agree on the building killing ^^.

And rush been a term I have used for a early attack for 15 years, wont stop using it because you don't like it :mrgreen:
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Trolerkules
 
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Re: about static defense

by Trolerkules Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:38 pm

b-b-but it sounds so nooby :D
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Dusty
 
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Re: about static defense

by Dusty Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:29 am

Do we know if we will be able to have units on walls and if so, can the surface on the walls be expanded by building multiple layers of walls...aka stronghold? Guessing this is beyond the scope of the game?
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zamy
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Re: about static defense

by zamy Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:27 pm

Dusty wrote:Do we know if we will be able to have units on walls and if so, can the surface on the walls be expanded by building multiple layers of walls...aka stronghold? Guessing this is beyond the scope of the game?


No about units on the walls, i' not sure about the second question, what do you mean exactly?
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Dusty
 
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Re: about static defense

by Dusty Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:40 am

Thanks for the reply. If you were to build two walls for example in straight lines on adjacent tiles, will the wall have a two tile thick center walkway, look like this l l instead of l l l, if that makes sense...
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zamy
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Re: about static defense

by zamy Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:30 pm

Dusty wrote:Thanks for the reply. If you were to build two walls for example in straight lines on adjacent tiles, will the wall have a two tile thick center walkway, look like this l l instead of l l l, if that makes sense...

Ah i get it.
No, they will look as different walls, maybe all towers too :roll:
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